Comments on: Our Voice in Our History http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/ History, Current Affairs & Books Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:39:01 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: kaangeya http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2917 kaangeya Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:09:40 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2917 Hindi and Urdu are syntactically identical - with a few differences in gender declensions and conjugations of pronouns and past tense verbs. And the syntactic base of Urdu and Hindi is very similar to that of the many popular languages of India. When you substitute a Sankritic word with a Farsi word (and the rare Arabic wod) you get Urdu. The Urdu spoken commonly in India is for al intents and purposes similar to Hindi. But the Urdu of the newscasts in India and the official Urdu of Pakistan are another matter entirely. Given the common base of Urdu and non-peninsular languages and a few peninsular languages it makes sense to learn Sanskrit. Where aesthetics and linguistics is concerned even the classical Tamizh tradition is derived from Sanskrit. Sanskrit is a technical object oriented language and not so much a means of daily communication - please note no oughts and shoulds here. Hindi and Urdu are syntactically identical – with a few differences in gender declensions and conjugations of pronouns and past tense verbs. And the syntactic base of Urdu and Hindi is very similar to that of the many popular languages of India. When you substitute a Sankritic word with a Farsi word (and the rare Arabic wod) you get Urdu. The Urdu spoken commonly in India is for al intents and purposes similar to Hindi. But the Urdu of the newscasts in India and the official Urdu of Pakistan are another matter entirely. Given the common base of Urdu and non-peninsular languages and a few peninsular languages it makes sense to learn Sanskrit. Where aesthetics and linguistics is concerned even the classical Tamizh tradition is derived from Sanskrit. Sanskrit is a technical object oriented language and not so much a means of daily communication – please note no oughts and shoulds here.

]]> By: froginthewell http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2916 froginthewell Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:52:37 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2916 Ahmad : <i>How many schools of UPBoard and CBSE board offer urdu?</i> Whether a school should offer Urdu or not is up to it; what prevents lovers of Urdu from setting up schools ( like <a href="http://alirfanschool.org/" rel="nofollow">this urdu-medium one</a> )? Similarly we have Union HRD ministry <a href="http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/science-textbooks-to-be-available-in-urdu_10052155.html" rel="nofollow">funding</a> translation of UP Board science books into Urdu. Thus, forget third language - one can even have Urdu medium education in both CBSE and UP board. Contrast with the lovely country called Pakistan that marginalized Bangla, Punjabi, Sindhi and Pashto in favor of Urdu. Regarding Bollywood : whether you care or not doesn't matter. The fact is that Urdu is not only not dying, but is also culturally dominant, sidelining Sanskrit. Ahmad :
How many schools of UPBoard and CBSE board offer urdu?

Whether a school should offer Urdu or not is up to it; what prevents lovers of Urdu from setting up schools ( like
this urdu-medium one )?

Similarly we have Union HRD ministry funding translation of UP Board science books into Urdu. Thus, forget third language – one can even have Urdu medium education in both CBSE and UP board.

Contrast with the lovely country called Pakistan that marginalized Bangla, Punjabi, Sindhi and Pashto in favor of Urdu.

Regarding Bollywood : whether you care or not doesn’t matter. The fact is that Urdu is not only not dying, but is also culturally dominant, sidelining Sanskrit.

]]> By: ahmad http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2915 ahmad Tue, 05 Aug 2008 03:54:28 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2915 Gaurav May be you should ask that question to my father who stayed back after partition. Froginthewell : Yes Urdu is taught in some schools. Yes there are some Urdu medium schools but not in UP. What does Urdu 'infiltrating' into hindi mean ? How many schools of UPBoard and CBSE board offer urdu ? After independence urdu was deliberately marginalised in Uttar Pradesh by the local Congress Govt. No wonder urdu is dying with it being restricted to madrassa people and the rare urdu medoum school in it's heartland of Uttar Pradesh Regarding sanskrit being badly taught I agree with you, I was taught sanskrit in school and like most people after leaving school forgot all about it. But I would prefer being taught my mother tounge urdu in school instead of sanskrit even as a third language. I dont care about Urdu being used in Bollywood. Gaurav
May be you should ask that question to my father who stayed back after partition.
Froginthewell :
Yes Urdu is taught in some schools. Yes there are some Urdu medium schools but not in UP. What does Urdu ‘infiltrating’ into hindi mean ?
How many schools of UPBoard and CBSE board offer urdu ?
After independence urdu was deliberately marginalised in Uttar Pradesh by the local Congress Govt. No wonder urdu is dying with it being restricted to madrassa people and the rare urdu medoum school in it’s heartland of Uttar Pradesh
Regarding sanskrit being badly taught I agree with you,
I was taught sanskrit in school and like most people after leaving school forgot all about it.
But I would prefer being taught my mother tounge urdu in school instead of sanskrit even as a third language.
I dont care about Urdu being used in Bollywood.

]]> By: Chandra http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2914 Chandra Tue, 05 Aug 2008 03:25:29 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2914 Ahmad, You should know that it's far more acceptable for people in power to talk of reviving Urdu than reviving Sanskrit - the former being secularist, latter a communalist. Whether either are is another matter. May be in UP Sanskrit is offered, but in south Sanskrit is not. In Hyderabad, Urdu is but in only few schools. Being from Hyderabad, I like Urdu and see a lot more of it in Indian public life - movies to media to politics, then Sanskrit. While it's far easier for most Indians to learn and understand Sanskrit because of their mother tongue, Urdu has a place but a much smaller one. That won't satisfy our Marxist secularists who control the public discourse. Their double standard is "appeasement." Ahmad,

You should know that it’s far more acceptable for people in power to talk of reviving Urdu than reviving Sanskrit – the former being secularist, latter a communalist. Whether either are is another matter. May be in UP Sanskrit is offered, but in south Sanskrit is not. In Hyderabad, Urdu is but in only few schools. Being from Hyderabad, I like Urdu and see a lot more of it in Indian public life – movies to media to politics, then Sanskrit.

While it’s far easier for most Indians to learn and understand Sanskrit because of their mother tongue, Urdu has a place but a much smaller one. That won’t satisfy our Marxist secularists who control the public discourse. Their double standard is “appeasement.”

]]> By: froginthewell http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2913 froginthewell Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:19:07 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2913 Ahmad - I don't understand your complaint - Urdu is taught in many Indian schools, right? And unlike Sanskrit it even gets taught as a first language? Secondly the Sanskrit taught in schools is far too mediocre, I am sorry to say. Most Hindi speakers also understand Urdu, and Urdu has infiltrated into Hindi in a big way. Urdu is still culturally dominant in India - pray why is it that every "classy" song in bollywood is Urdu-based? You may say that Sanskrit doesn't have scope for use in classy bollywood songs - but the presence of Sanskrit and Indian-mythology-based themes in Malayalam film songs presents an overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ahmad – I don’t understand your complaint – Urdu is taught in many Indian schools, right? And unlike Sanskrit it even gets taught as a first language? Secondly the Sanskrit taught in schools is far too mediocre, I am sorry to say.

Most Hindi speakers also understand Urdu, and Urdu has infiltrated into Hindi in a big way. Urdu is still culturally dominant in India – pray why is it that every “classy” song in bollywood is Urdu-based?

You may say that Sanskrit doesn’t have scope for use in classy bollywood songs – but the presence of Sanskrit and Indian-mythology-based themes in Malayalam film songs presents an overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

]]> By: Gaurav http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2912 Gaurav Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:24:26 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2912 Ahmad: Well may be as a North Indian Muslim you should have migrated to Pakistan, considering how it was the North Indian Muslims in the first place who were hankering for land of pure. Ahmad:

Well may be as a North Indian Muslim you should have migrated to Pakistan, considering how it was the North Indian Muslims in the first place who were hankering for land of pure.

]]> By: ahmad http://varnam.org/blog/2008/08/our_voice_in_our_history/comment-page-1/#comment-2911 ahmad Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:15:57 +0000 http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1479#comment-2911 As a north indian muslim living in UP I would prefer that my children learn urdu in govt schools but that would be interpreted as "appeasement" According to the three language formula alongwith English,hindi urdu and sanskrit could the avalaible options for the third language. Sanskrit is already taught in CBSE and UP Board schools in middle and Secondary classes As a north indian muslim living in UP I would prefer that my children learn urdu in govt schools but that would be interpreted as “appeasement”
According to the three language formula alongwith English,hindi urdu and sanskrit could the avalaible options for the third language.
Sanskrit is already taught in CBSE and UP Board schools in middle and Secondary classes

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