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	<title>Comments on: False Gods and Filthy Idols</title>
	<atom:link href="http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/</link>
	<description>History, Current Affairs &#38; Books</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:39:01 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Chandrasekar</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-14929</link>
		<dc:creator>Chandrasekar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 04:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-14929</guid>
		<description>Tantra sastra has nothing to do with buddhisim.Please don&#039;t get used.Tantras are based on vedic principles of garghabadhya swarpu anabhuvam. Sage parsuramar sutram follows vedic principles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tantra sastra has nothing to do with buddhisim.Please don&#8217;t get used.Tantras are based on vedic principles of garghabadhya swarpu anabhuvam. Sage parsuramar sutram follows vedic principles.</p>
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		<title>By: Vishleshak</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-6576</link>
		<dc:creator>Vishleshak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-6576</guid>
		<description>I believe that those who think a particular religion is inferior are actually ignorant people. Truly spiritual beings will enjoy interesting stuff in all the religions. As with everything even spirituality has to be simplified for lay persons and we do see great deal of that done by different saints and it should be commended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that those who think a particular religion is inferior are actually ignorant people. Truly spiritual beings will enjoy interesting stuff in all the religions. As with everything even spirituality has to be simplified for lay persons and we do see great deal of that done by different saints and it should be commended.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaffir</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5951</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaffir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5951</guid>
		<description>kedar,

True re: Avalokiteshwara and Tara, but what I was trying to say was that some branches of Buddhism do not call for worshiping of &lt;b&gt;any&lt;/b&gt; single object, be it Buddha, Avalokiteshwara or Tara. Worshiping (of deities) is neither promoted, nor called for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kedar,</p>
<p>True re: Avalokiteshwara and Tara, but what I was trying to say was that some branches of Buddhism do not call for worshiping of <b>any</b> single object, be it Buddha, Avalokiteshwara or Tara. Worshiping (of deities) is neither promoted, nor called for.</p>
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		<title>By: kedar</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5912</link>
		<dc:creator>kedar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5912</guid>
		<description>Kaffir, I agree.

Some forms of Buddhism have over time, come to have different deities like Tara (there is a white one and I think a green one), Avalokiteshwara etc. I believe they are a marriage between original Buddhism, certain Tantric traditions, and native south-eastern traditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaffir, I agree.</p>
<p>Some forms of Buddhism have over time, come to have different deities like Tara (there is a white one and I think a green one), Avalokiteshwara etc. I believe they are a marriage between original Buddhism, certain Tantric traditions, and native south-eastern traditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaffir</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5905</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaffir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5905</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Buddhism and Jainism, although do not advocate worship of one supreme deity, nevertheless have a single object of worshipâ€“ Buddha or Jina.&lt;/i&gt;

Not all branches of Buddhism call for a single object of worship (Buddha), though that is how we see it manifested in the form of Buddha statues in temples, with people worshiping, most notably in Thailand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Buddhism and Jainism, although do not advocate worship of one supreme deity, nevertheless have a single object of worship&acirc;€“ Buddha or Jina.</i></p>
<p>Not all branches of Buddhism call for a single object of worship (Buddha), though that is how we see it manifested in the form of Buddha statues in temples, with people worshiping, most notably in Thailand.</p>
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		<title>By: jk</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5887</link>
		<dc:creator>jk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5887</guid>
		<description>Kedar,

True. Most of these comparisons do not take into account the philosophy behind polytheism or idol worship and are based on finding similarities with other Eurocentric religions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kedar,</p>
<p>True. Most of these comparisons do not take into account the philosophy behind polytheism or idol worship and are based on finding similarities with other Eurocentric religions.</p>
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		<title>By: Kedar</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5880</link>
		<dc:creator>Kedar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5880</guid>
		<description>JK and RK:
    I am yet to read about the spirituality and realisation in Canaanite religions but I do know that major polytheistic religions of the Mediterranean-- Greek, Egyptian, Roman, etc had very little to offer in terms of &#039;Atma-chintanam&#039;. They had Gods scheming amongst themselves and bound by a bigger enitity, which Kaufman calls &#039;Metadivine realm&#039; (from Prof. Hayes lecture). The best life lived was that of a warrior who sacrificed his life in the line of duty, like Hercules who was raIsed to the status of a DemiGod.  
 
    My point is, when westerners look at polytheism, they mostly look at Greeco-Roman or Egyptian (GRE) religions, and when they look at Monotheism, they look at Abrahamic religions.  But neither the GRE coalition represents polytheism in its best sense, nor Abrahamic religions represent Monotheism in its best sense. The sad part though is that definitions and characterisations are made based on these very examples, good or bad.  

Typically, Indic religions area class apart, and all of the 6 sub religions-- Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shaaktya, Gaanapatya, Soura, Skaanda, not to mention the various tribal and village deity-cults, Buddhism and Jainism are each a study in their own, and I think its unfair to drag them and try to fit them into the pigeon holes created by the west.

So I would limit myself to the examples available and say that Abrahamic type of monotheism is at a higher plane than GRE type of polytheism. 

Arby:
Zarathushtra is quite ancient.  Talageri puts him well into the 3rd millennium BCE, whereas Kak puts him in the middle of 2nd millennium BCE. Even if Kak&#039;s later date is considered, its still early stages of Judaic religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JK and RK:<br />
    I am yet to read about the spirituality and realisation in Canaanite religions but I do know that major polytheistic religions of the Mediterranean&#8211; Greek, Egyptian, Roman, etc had very little to offer in terms of &#8216;Atma-chintanam&#8217;. They had Gods scheming amongst themselves and bound by a bigger enitity, which Kaufman calls &#8216;Metadivine realm&#8217; (from Prof. Hayes lecture). The best life lived was that of a warrior who sacrificed his life in the line of duty, like Hercules who was raIsed to the status of a DemiGod.  </p>
<p>    My point is, when westerners look at polytheism, they mostly look at Greeco-Roman or Egyptian (GRE) religions, and when they look at Monotheism, they look at Abrahamic religions.  But neither the <span class="caps">GRE </span>coalition represents polytheism in its best sense, nor Abrahamic religions represent Monotheism in its best sense. The sad part though is that definitions and characterisations are made based on these very examples, good or bad.  </p>
<p>Typically, Indic religions area class apart, and all of the 6 sub religions&#8211; Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shaaktya, Gaanapatya, Soura, Skaanda, not to mention the various tribal and village deity-cults, Buddhism and Jainism are each a study in their own, and I think its unfair to drag them and try to fit them into the pigeon holes created by the west.</p>
<p>So I would limit myself to the examples available and say that Abrahamic type of monotheism is at a higher plane than <span class="caps">GRE </span>type of polytheism. </p>
<p>Arby:<br />
Zarathushtra is quite ancient.  Talageri puts him well into the 3rd millennium <span class="caps">BCE, </span>whereas Kak puts him in the middle of 2nd millennium <span class="caps">BCE.</span> Even if Kak&#8217;s later date is considered, its still early stages of Judaic religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramakrishna U</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5868</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramakrishna U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5868</guid>
		<description>The concept of Monotheism in the Semitic religions seems to be similar to the one who is glorified in various Suktas. Also polytheism may be more less mature than monotheism. Hindusim is (&quot;uniformly&quot;) polytheistic. Let us see how such statements could be improved.

It is only the western religions who see a God other than the self, while the Sanatana-dharma clearly says that the Self is God. It is the western religions who define a world which is different from God, while it is Sanatana-dharma which says that the world that the individual (the &quot;little i&quot;)  sees is not different from God. Hence the idea that Indic religions, in particular Sanatana-dharma being monotheistic is incorrect in the absolute-sense. The &quot;mono&quot; part may be true, but what is the meaning of theism when you have a major branch of Philosophy (Darshana) Purva-Mimamsa need not believe in the creative power (as well as dispensing power (of karma)) of Ishvara. They believe in Vedas and Vedas only.

The Upanishads follow a adhyaropa-apavaada theory of teaching, where you shown a higher level of truth from the current state you are in. For them, the whole world is a manifestation of God. Lord Krishna has made the above very clear in chapter 10 of Bhagavad Gita, where He defines the whole world as a manifestation of Himself. Is He creating a new theory. No. He is rephrasing a Upanishadic-metaphor (Mundaka) of a spider weaving a web and becoming it. In fact, such a glorification is clear in worshipping the feminine qualities of (almost) all Devatas in Sanatana Dharma. These feminine qualities, like Lakshmi (as Bhudevi), Parvati (as Lalitha) are the symbols of the concrete, and visible aspects of Ishvara, with the more abstract form (like sleeping Narayana, eyes-closed Shiva) being the abstract form of Self. That Self that is Sat-Chit-Ananda. 

Swami Dayananda says: &lt;b&gt;Other religions says &quot;Our God Only&quot;, while Hinduism is the only one who says that &quot;It is Only God&quot;.&lt;/b&gt;. Here the Swami is explaining the spirit of chapter 10 of Gita that I have referred above. 

Also refer to an excellent article on the same subject
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_14.html

The gradation in Sanatana-dharma is very clear: The initial &lt;i&gt;&quot;Jiva-Jagat-Ishvara&quot;&lt;/i&gt; bheda is refined to &lt;i&gt;&quot;Jiva-Jagat-Guru-Ishvara&quot;&lt;/i&gt; to &lt;i&gt;&quot;anaatma-aatma&quot;&lt;/i&gt; to &lt;i&gt;&quot;Atma&quot;&lt;/i&gt;. In the final stage, where the Atma is Atma without a second, ekameeva-advitiyam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept of Monotheism in the Semitic religions seems to be similar to the one who is glorified in various Suktas. Also polytheism may be more less mature than monotheism. Hindusim is (&#8221;uniformly&#8221;) polytheistic. Let us see how such statements could be improved.</p>
<p>It is only the western religions who see a God other than the self, while the Sanatana-dharma clearly says that the Self is God. It is the western religions who define a world which is different from God, while it is Sanatana-dharma which says that the world that the individual (the &#8220;little i&#8221;)  sees is not different from God. Hence the idea that Indic religions, in particular Sanatana-dharma being monotheistic is incorrect in the absolute-sense. The &#8220;mono&#8221; part may be true, but what is the meaning of theism when you have a major branch of Philosophy (Darshana) Purva-Mimamsa need not believe in the creative power (as well as dispensing power (of karma)) of Ishvara. They believe in Vedas and Vedas only.</p>
<p>The Upanishads follow a adhyaropa-apavaada theory of teaching, where you shown a higher level of truth from the current state you are in. For them, the whole world is a manifestation of God. Lord Krishna has made the above very clear in chapter 10 of Bhagavad Gita, where He defines the whole world as a manifestation of Himself. Is He creating a new theory. No. He is rephrasing a Upanishadic-metaphor (Mundaka) of a spider weaving a web and becoming it. In fact, such a glorification is clear in worshipping the feminine qualities of (almost) all Devatas in Sanatana Dharma. These feminine qualities, like Lakshmi (as Bhudevi), Parvati (as Lalitha) are the symbols of the concrete, and visible aspects of Ishvara, with the more abstract form (like sleeping Narayana, eyes-closed Shiva) being the abstract form of Self. That Self that is Sat-Chit-Ananda. </p>
<p>Swami Dayananda says: <b>Other religions says &#8220;Our God Only&#8221;, while Hinduism is the only one who says that &#8220;It is Only God&#8221;.</b>. Here the Swami is explaining the spirit of chapter 10 of Gita that I have referred above. </p>
<p>Also refer to an excellent article on the same subject<br />
<a href="http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_14.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_14.html</a></p>
<p>The gradation in Sanatana-dharma is very clear: The initial <i>&#8220;Jiva-Jagat-Ishvara&#8221;</i> bheda is refined to <i>&#8220;Jiva-Jagat-Guru-Ishvara&#8221;</i> to <i>&#8220;anaatma-aatma&#8221;</i> to <i>&#8220;Atma&#8221;</i>. In the final stage, where the Atma is Atma without a second, ekameeva-advitiyam.</p>
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		<title>By: jk</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5865</link>
		<dc:creator>jk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5865</guid>
		<description>Ramakrishna,

Had not heard about this. Will try to read them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ramakrishna,</p>
<p>Had not heard about this. Will try to read them.</p>
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		<title>By: jk</title>
		<link>http://varnam.org/blog/2009/01/false-gods-and-filthy-idols/comment-page-1/#comment-5864</link>
		<dc:creator>jk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://varnam.org/blog/?p=1942#comment-5864</guid>
		<description>Kedar,

The unifying ideal behind all Indic religions is the practical realization of truth - basically sravana (hearing the truth), manana (conviction after critical analysis) and nidhidhyasana (practical realization).  Under this vast umbrella  theism, atheism and materialism were supported. This gives freedom to the end user; if he had  practical realization, then no one can say it is false.

There are more options - you could stick to apara vidya or para vidya - based on your level. What I am trying to say is, with these parameters, we cannot say one is better than the other. So if Caananites worshiped many gods and they realized the truth that path is fine and so is the path of Israelites who worshiped a Supreme God. It this value judgment - this path is better than the others - that has resulted in crusades and conversion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kedar,</p>
<p>The unifying ideal behind all Indic religions is the practical realization of truth &#8211; basically sravana (hearing the truth), manana (conviction after critical analysis) and nidhidhyasana (practical realization).  Under this vast umbrella  theism, atheism and materialism were supported. This gives freedom to the end user; if he had  practical realization, then no one can say it is false.</p>
<p>There are more options &#8211; you could stick to apara vidya or para vidya &#8211; based on your level. What I am trying to say is, with these parameters, we cannot say one is better than the other. So if Caananites worshiped many gods and they realized the truth that path is fine and so is the path of Israelites who worshiped a Supreme God. It this value judgment &#8211; this path is better than the others &#8211; that has resulted in crusades and conversion.</p>
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